Crypto, A Force for Good? Or a Trap?

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  • Crypto, A Force for Good? Or a Trap?

    Posted by SpagsUnfiltered on November 14, 2022 at 2:39 pm

    Let’s talk Crypto! This topic came up on one of my other discussions and I think it is worth having its own place.

    I am admittedly not very knowledgeable about this topic. I know just enough to lose money…hahaha. But all joking aside, this topic is super divisive and can cause silly arguments. So, with that in mind, let’s keep this discussion fun and beneficial.

    Disclaimer: Anything said here is NOT to be taken as financial advice. Like all investments, your decisions are your decisions, and you should consult a professional financial advisor who is an expert in Crypto Currency and knows all applicable laws and regulations.

    Annnnnnnnd……GO!

    Granny-Hatchet replied 9 months, 2 weeks ago 21 Members · 72 Replies
  • 72 Replies
  • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

    Member
    November 14, 2022 at 3:59 pm

    Anyone that wants a free education with certificate about many topics go to http://www.Saylor.org

    There is a Bitcoin Topic CS120 Bitcoin for Developers 1. Some of it gets pretty deep but most of it the layman can understand and it does a great job explaining many of the myths out there specifically about Bitcoin.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 14, 2022 at 4:06 pm

      Thank you! I was hoping you would chime in. I’ll give this a gander.

  • Maytag

    Member
    November 14, 2022 at 4:42 pm

    I haven’t studied crypto THAT much, but have tried to learn a bit about it. I have mostly kept my distance from them. In a general sense, I lean towards “smells like a trap, but possibly a force for positive change in the future.” Maybe my knowledge is a little dated by now. I’m still open to be more convinced in either direction!

    The general idea itself behind cryptocurrencies as a currency unregulated by a government is a great idea. Whether or not you want to argue that cryptocurrencies are just devised by rich people trying to get richer, that core idea is an attractive one to me, and probably many all across the relative wealth spectrum. But is that what crypto really is today? Is it really any sort of viable replacement for the USD for the common person? Are they just get-rich-quick investments built on hype? Or can they be used as a tool for evil by enforcing system-slavery and transaction-shaming?

    Here are a few things that all tie together to cast an overall unfavorable light on crypto, to me:

    Cumbersome – not widely accepted, many have high transaction costs

    Favors early adopters – successful coin systems become far more expensive to buy into once established (this is similar to stocks or holdings in successful businesses, except in the case of cryptocurrencies, ostensibly this is a currency not just an investment)

    Reliant on massive infrastructure – sure, technology is widespread, and distributed ledgers make cryptocurrencies resilient against “outages” but these systems still require considerable energy, constant network connectivity, and favor those with large amounts of capital to set up mining infrastructure

    Whimsical – since anyone can theoretically spin up a new currency evaluating cryptocurrencies is more like gambling on startup company investments than a functional currency

    Anyway, just a few Monday morning thoughts from someone who has thought about the topic a bit, but not enough to be an expert or have firm answers or convictions. Not trying to be judgemental about any of this.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 14, 2022 at 4:47 pm

      All valid points. I tend to at least in part gold to each one to a certain degree. I think with Crypto, it’s a bit of “all the above”.

      But, to be fair, that’s what decentralization gets you. Freedom is very dangerous. So are all things associated with it. But I’m willing to live dangerously free than safely as a serf.

      So I’ll dabble. I’ll learn, but always with skepticism.

      Thanks for commenting!

    • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

      Member
      November 14, 2022 at 4:53 pm

      Actually it is more accepted than you probably think. With Lightning as a 3rd layer to make payments its easy. Subways in certain areas are accepting as well as Burger King. It’s not wide spread but with more education to the public and a more prominent population that uses Bitcoin it will become a thorn in the side of that 3 letter gubment organization that likes to steal our money. It also clears fast from your ledger as in usually 10 minutes or less. Not like waiting 4-7 days for that darn fiat deposit to hit your account! And bank checks, forget how long that takes. The bitcoin block chain closes out the block of transactions every 10 minutes. Fees to process are so much less than credit/debit card fees too. That means a lot to businesses that use bitcoin. Seriously take the course written by Michael Saylor the Godfather of Bitcoin Knowledge. It is on Saylor Academy at http://www.saylor.org Class CS102 Bitcoin for Developers. I firmly believe it will be the currency of choice for a parallel economy to our corrupt gubment when they become tyrannical enough to warrant the transition. Just my honest opinion. I also recommend not putting all your biscuits in bitcoin. Gold/Silver, Property, ect… are options for your biscuits!!

      • SpagsUnfiltered

        Community Leader
        November 14, 2022 at 5:09 pm

        The ghetto tobacco store a few miles down the road has a bitcoin kiosk in it.

      • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

        Member
        November 14, 2022 at 7:38 pm

        👍

  • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

    Member
    November 14, 2022 at 4:57 pm

    https://paybis.com/blog/companies-that-accept-bitcoin/

    170 Companies that accept Bitcoin as payment.

  • Squashmania

    Member
    November 14, 2022 at 5:38 pm

    I would probably have a more positive outlook if I hadn’t bought at almost the zenith. The husband lost $5K on the way out. I still have some in.

    Jack Spirko on his survival podcast speaks of this ephemeral substance very positively. I am trying to teach myself to see what he sees. Nicole Sauce also seems to espouse this idea.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 14, 2022 at 6:55 pm

      Getting in early is pivotal. I honestly see 98% of crypto as quick flip gambling. As long as I view it that way and only bet what I’m willing to lose, it never bites me.

  • Billt21

    Member
    November 14, 2022 at 7:04 pm

    My thoughts are, and I have taken heat from them in the past. First I think that crypto is a a way to switch new people looking to hedge their long term wealth away from tangible assets like gold and silver, and even property(which is a whole other conversation in its self) as a way to manipulate the value of said hard assets. And break new people from the habit of long term generational wealth creation and protection.

    That leads me into my second thought and again, there will be a whole lot of people explain to me that I know not what I say. I personally think that crypto exists right now only because the big “G” government hasn’t gotten around to where they don’t like it unless they control it. I think that once it starts to effect their bottom line or the much talked about government approved digital currency comes on-line they will start to criminalize it or just tax it enough to make it untenable. And do you really think that out current cabal for instance is not capable of declaring anyone that uses digital currency a domestic terrorist?

    Now I readily agree that I may just be old enough that I don’t trust this new fangled thing. I also may have to participate in it as what I hope is the underground economy expands. For now I won’t ever have anymore in it that I think I can afford to lose though, that however should be the advice for most everything.

    I hope everyone has a great day

    Bill T

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 14, 2022 at 7:11 pm

      Thanks for the reply! I true don’t view it as the salvation of thr market. Could it be? Possibly. But more likely that it is part of the bait and switch.

      That being said, I have often advocated that it should not just be the “dirty Ashkenazi bankers” (just wanted to see if I’d get canceled like K West…haahaha) who profit on these sorts of things.

      A well rounded prepper mentality forces us to use what we can learn to use to gain wealth to use as needed. But agreed on investing more than we can lose.

  • Barred-Rock-or-Brahma

    Member
    November 14, 2022 at 8:34 pm

    But just in case it isn’t, I invested (read: gambled) enough into it while it was down this year to make buying property much easier if it goes back up.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 14, 2022 at 9:37 pm

      Yep. If sn animal sees a trap, and successfully removes the bait and eats it without setting off the trap….it’s a smart animal.

  • Mud

    Member
    November 15, 2022 at 12:03 am

    Crypto and Bitcoin are a scam and here’s why.

    It is a feel good investment that pays dividends out of thin air. They hype was so real everyone jumped aboard. All news feeds, celebrities, politicians, talking heads had something to say about it.

    The governments could care less how it was used for discretionary activity although you know they wanted to tax it or get a piece of the action……BUT THEY LET IT RUN WILD AND NOT DUE TO THEIR INABILITY TO REGULATE CRYPTO…..why? They can track crypto with the way the ledger is organized and permanently stored. 2 wallets exchange crypto from specific IP addresses…..That is enough info to back track the (who, what, when, where, and why) regardless of what anonymous super powers people think crypto has due to block chain tech.

    It’s hollywood predictive programming, enjoy the CDBC’s paired with Social Credit Scores coming soon.

    Yes it can be profitable and life changing for those who invested early……

    The time frame and design was to allow the public to be comfy with digital currency so the gubment can enact digital currencies without backlash from the public. Nothing more / nothing less. This is why I myself consider it trash, because the hype has fooled the public to take the mark of the beast.

    Safe to assume that once CDBCs are enacted and running smoothly, independent cryptos will be smashed and thrashed thru gubment policies. Then the mark of the beast and hell breaks loose.

    I’m hiding in the woods, no mark for me. Would rather die than take the gubment mark.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 15, 2022 at 12:15 am

      What part do you consider the mark of the beast?

      Every part of what you describe can equally be attributed to a debit card or ordering on Amazon.

      That money isn’t real either. Ever since the birth of fractional reserve banking under the FED, a bank only has to have deposited 15% of all total holdings in that institution.

      By your logic, using green backs is the mark of the beast too. It’s all government usury and all fake. None of it is anything less than intergenerational debt.

      So why does crypto all of a sudden become the beast when it’s nothing but a modern rendition of what everyone of us has done since we got our first $5 for mowing the lawn?

      I think that is far too simplistic of a view of it. There is zero chance to be a purist about money. We all are hypocrites to one degree or another.

      • Mud

        Member
        November 15, 2022 at 3:53 am

        You are right in that all these types of currencies used to trade for labor, services, or goods retain the same purpose. And that I myself did not elaborate on the implications to come far enough in the advanced future from the present where we stand today.

        Debit cards / CCs are tracked and you can call them the mark of the beast but I don’t think these type of transactions are what is defined by the scripture.

        We can still go to the store with cash and buy what is wanted right now……We still have diversification.

        In the future, CBDCs will eventually be made to be the ONLY way people will be allowed to transact.

        That is what the future will entail when governments use the COMPUTER to monitor all transactions thru a single currency. It’s similar to the Tower of Babel allegory where humanity communicated thru a single language.

        5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.” 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.

        We currently have many languages of currency to transact in, which is a good thing, I myself am not nay-saying crypto in a sense that it is right now the best way we currently have for fast transacting money with no middle man. This is good.

        What is trying to be said is that the end game of the government will be a Tower of Babel currency in which “nothing they plan to do to YOU AND THOSE YOU LOVE will be impossible for them.”

        Again, my apologies for not elaborating.

      • SpagsUnfiltered

        Community Leader
        November 15, 2022 at 4:13 am

        AH, That makes sense. Thank you for elaborating. I appreciate the feedback!

  • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

    Member
    November 15, 2022 at 11:28 am

    BTW Bitcoin has been around going on 14 years. It’s decentralized and no one owns it. It was designed to and for personal freedoms away from fiat currency. Most people don’t know but this but the US Dollar has defaulted on the dollar 5 times. Bitcoin only has 21 million Bitcoin, period which means that this currency is a deflating currency. You can’t make more like central banks and governments have been doing for decades. This decentralized system uses proof of work or stake to determine if every transaction is correct.

    A typical PoS based mechanism workflow:

    1. Nodes make transactions. The PoS algorithm puts all these transactions in a pool.
    2. All the nodes contending to become validator for the next block raise a stake. This stake is combined with other factors like ‘coin-age’ or ‘randomized block selection’ to select the validator.
    3. The validator verifies all the transactions and publishes the block. His stake still remains locked and the forging reward is also not granted yet. This is so that the nodes on the network can ‘OK’ the new block.
    4. If the block is ‘OK’-ed, the validator gets the stake back and the reward too. If the algorithm is using a coin-age based mechanism to select validators, the validator for the current block’s has its coin-age reset to 0. This puts him in a low-priority for the next validator election.
    5. If the block is not verified by other nodes on the network, the validator loses its stake and is marked as ‘bad’ by the algorithm. The process again starts from step 1 to forge the new block.

    It’s not some sort of government conspiracy. You can actually go onto the web and view transaction on the block chain. Completely transparent but private as it doesn’t reveal names just Bitcoin addresses.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 15, 2022 at 12:52 pm

      Great points! Love the discussion.

    • Mud

      Member
      November 15, 2022 at 6:42 pm

      You are much more knowledgeable than me in the matter. Crypto is the best we got to a currency that is free from manipulation.

      The market value is down but also as you said the Bitcoin amount is fixed and does not change.

      The halving events that occur over time when it comes to bitcoin mining should move the market in a positive fashion.

      If my memory serves me correctly, the next halving event happens in mid 2023?

      Anyways, basic supply and demand dictates that the price should rise after the halving event makes bitcoin more costly to mine. Thus making BTC rise in price to compensate for the mining costs / decrease in supply.

      Not trying to rain on anyone’s parade. It has a lot of potential to change peoples lives for the better. The next halving event should be a market mover but my knowledge is limited at best.

  • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

    Member
    November 15, 2022 at 12:26 pm

    The Gubment is going after it by trying to make regulations to tax people and make it as difficult to use and purchase crypto. The gubment is doing this because they fear it.

    I agree there are many types of crypto that are Scam like and actually have been proven to be. Bitcoin is the king of Crypto because of block chain and proof of work algorithms. Its solid.

    If you are making comments based on what someone told you and not fact I highly recommend you take the course on Bitcoin I mentioned early in the thread. Educate yourself on the topic. I find most deniers know very little about bitcoin or can not prove what they are saying with facts.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 15, 2022 at 1:14 pm

      Are there any other crypto you like to invest in? Or is it just Bitcoin?

      • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

        Member
        November 15, 2022 at 1:41 pm

        I think the only other crypto I might dive into eventually is Etherium. They are making some changes to their system that strengthens their security. Bitcoin IMHO is the King and the rest are shitcoins. Just my opinion!

      • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

        Member
        November 15, 2022 at 1:43 pm

        But I always tell folks do your own research and make up your own mind.

      • SpagsUnfiltered

        Community Leader
        November 15, 2022 at 2:47 pm

        I agree. I have 6 cryptos in my portfolio including Bitcoin. Most of them purchased on a tip from a friend I have that is very knowledgeable on crypto. He too will say that most crypto is just gambling and all you do is buy low sell high like anything else.

        I have some hope for Ethereum too. I do own some of that. I’m really hoping the SEC lawsuit against Ripple ends well. I believe XRP has real potential. However I am not an XRP Army Fan Boy like most people who own it.

  • JD-in-GA

    Member
    November 15, 2022 at 1:51 pm

    Anything Govt does not like or sees as a competitor and wants to regulate, “We The People” probably need more of it before Govt fowls it up.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 15, 2022 at 2:47 pm

      I would agree with that.

  • Raspberry

    Member
    November 15, 2022 at 2:23 pm

    I’m a big fan of the idea of Bitcoin as a decentralized currency, always have been, always will be. We have a little bit but we choose not invest too deeply. What happens if the grid goes down or the government turns off the internet? It happens. Without any hard currency or something to barter with in your hand, I don’t see how the average person would be able to access their Bitcoin. I’m married to a retired IT guy, so technology and infrastructure is not a problem for us but these are usually his questions too.

    Love this thread!

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 15, 2022 at 2:51 pm

      Thanks for commenting!

      Honestly, people tell me that you can have hardened external crypto wallets. But as far as I can tell, this won’t be for barter post event. I think Crypto is more for buying back into the system that emerges from the event.

      Most preppers have this “prepper porn” idea that the world collapses and we get sucked into a Mad Max vortex that lasts hundreds of years. This is likely very untrue. All the world governments know collapse of some nature is inevitable and they have been preparing just as we have….only with virtually unlimited resources.

      No matter if it is an EMP, limited nuclear exchange, financial collapse, conventional war etc; the NWO in all its forms has plans in place right now to bring the world back online when they chose. Having the ability to buy into whatever replaces the current paradigm is a strategy everyone should consider.

      • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

        Member
        November 15, 2022 at 2:57 pm

        Agreed. There are hard wallets to store your crypto although your crypto stays on the block chain you control the digital asset information.

      • Barred-Rock-or-Brahma

        Member
        November 22, 2022 at 12:01 pm

        Hardware wallets are a great way to protect yourself when exchanges get hacked or go down. My rule is to only use the exchanges for making transactions. I keep my coins on a Ledger Nano so that if anything were to happen to Binance, I could just use another exchange. One limitation with this method is that cold storage devices are not configured to hold all types of coins, meaning that if you want to hold your SHIBA INU or DOGE offline, you’ll need to exchange it for something compatible with your device (BTC, ETH, XRP, etc.)

  • JD-in-GA

    Member
    November 15, 2022 at 2:25 pm

    Apologies in advance for the novel…

    You are already using a digital currency that is based on “thin air”: The US Dollar.

    They just printed $trillions$ of it and it is based on nothing except “the full faith and credit of the USA” which is just a fancy way of saying, “what the market agrees it is worth”.

    You likely use a credit-card or ATM card every day, quite possibly over the internet. You may move funds between your bank accounts and to pay bills. Your employer may make electronic “direct-deposits” into your accounts. Your accounts are just numbers on “somebody else’s computer” (your bank’s).

    Those are all just ones & zeros traveling through the various interconnected digital networks.

    The biggest difference between fiat currency (US Dollar) and Decentralized Finance Crypto-currency (DeFi Crypto), is that the Govt “owns” the dollar and can block you from accessing it and/or seize your accounts and regulates it in all manner of ways. Most infuriatingly, the govt controls how often you are allowed to withdraw your own money from your own savings account.

    DeFi Crypto is owned by no-one. Provided the internet is functioning and you are allowed to connect to it, you can access it openly or anonymously. Not every country kow-tows to the USA and there will be a jurisdiction, somewhere on the planet, that does not block it or regulate it.

    The biggest downside to DeFi Crypto is that is is (relatively speaking) new and still in the “wild west” days, so to speak. Just like the Model-A Ford or any other new technology, it takes time to mature and establish into common usage. Except this time, the technology is coveted by Govts and they want to control it. And it is not as easy as “money in hand”.

    Most folks are aware of Crypto, but have no idea how it works on a transactional level. I would argue it is simply because they do not yet feel the need to understand it. I mean, money still “works”, right? At least for now… But what I can tell you is that it is not as difficult as it seems. Consider that brain-addled drug addicts have figured out crypto despite the ease of their normal currency, the US dollar. So, it can’t be too terribly hard.

    There is a growing thought that the US Govt desperately needs to establish their own digital crypto to replace the collapsing dollar. We are over $30 trillion dollars in debt (and rising) and will never be able to print money fast enough to cover that debt. Plus, with inflation and interest rates going up, that trillions of debt only gets more and more and more expensive.

    Govt seems to believe that a central bank digital currency (CBDC) that replaces the US Dollar solves a lot of those issues. I think they are dead wrong, but I can see the allure. If they need more money, all they have to do is work a keyboard. If they need to track it, they can do so for anyone, anywhere, right down to the tiniest fraction of a coin. They would then gain micro-level control of your spending. Run a head of lettuce across the grocery scanner? Approved! A 2nd six-pack of beer this month? Disapproved! You are only authorized one per month and now you are on a list to be monitored for alcoholism and driving under the influence. That may be far fetched for now, but if there is anything the average politician enjoys, it is micro-managing people’s lives and forcing them to live in their “approved” manner.

    DeFi Crytpo is the way around all of that and eludes govt control. Govt hates it. And most everything Govt hates, I tend to admire. Opinions will vary.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 15, 2022 at 3:01 pm

      Great response. I don’t think that the “beer disapproved and now you are on a list” is that farfetched quite honestly. I think that sort of system is just around the corner and the FED is certainly creating Dollar Coin right now. You can actually invest in it as a lateral option on most Crypto trading aps. It’s called USDC (US Dollar Coin) and is exchanged at the rate of 1 for 1. At some point, this will be turned on past a lateral monetary hold and will absolutely replace the paper dollar.

      <font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”>My oldest daughter currently works at Wally World as a pharmacy tech, and she tells us every day how Walmart is purposefully not bringing cash into the stores. Half the time they don’t have cash in the </font>self-check<font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”> </font>outs,<font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”> and she says that store staff has to fight over the one cash register in the store that has actual cash. </font>

      Walmart is part of the DHS’s national net and just like HyVee, Kroger, etc are conditioning us to use nothing but our debt cards. Eventually we will all be issued a USDC card from our banks to replace the existing debt cards. Most people won’t see this coming and when it happens will view it as nothing more than a new card.

      <font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”>I </font>promise<font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”> all banks will “</font>incentivize<font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”>” you to turn in your cash, and it will be put on your prepaid USDC card and can be used just like a prepaid debt card. But….just like how your gift cards ALL have small micro </font>balances<font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”> left on them after you use them (because nothing costs exactly $50 right? Everyone leaves $1.23 or so on their cards that they end up not using withing the year limit), the government will use that to limit your saving power. Your USDC cards will likely have spending limits, and deadlines to use certian micro amounts. </font>

      <font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”>The USDC Card will absolutely be used to control everything you do. And think of this, there is no need to outlaw guns or ammo. All they have to do is have your cards set to deny your purchases with a system of gun control linked exclusively to the current economy and the USCD Card…just like Europe. Yeah, you can buy guns in many European </font>countries<font color=”rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)” face=”inherit”> still. Just with long waiting lists, and rules that require you to keep it at a gun club etc. </font>

      • Mud

        Member
        November 15, 2022 at 6:50 pm

        This right here is the end goal and crypto is the gateway for the public to feel happy about it, until it gets replaced with CBDCs. Hopefully the public wont think BTC is the same as CDBCs when they roll out.

      • SpagsUnfiltered

        Community Leader
        November 15, 2022 at 6:53 pm

        The most difficult part of any free market, is to get an informed consumer base. All the innovation and freedom in the world mean nothing when people don’t know what that means.

        That’s when capitalism devolved into corporatism and we get what we have now.

        Valid point @Mud

      • Barred-Rock-or-Brahma

        Member
        November 22, 2022 at 12:04 pm

        When I become a Bitcoin millionaire, this comment is going on billboards nationwide.

      • SpagsUnfiltered

        Community Leader
        November 22, 2022 at 1:27 pm

        😂💯

  • Robin_Holstein

    Member
    November 22, 2022 at 9:53 am

    I am currently studying Bitcoin (see link below). It can be a challenge for some to understand. Here is something that made my brain swirl: What is the US dollar backed by?

    Even if I had a decent supply of gold or silver it is only worth what we make it worth. At one time beads and seashell were forms of currency. Plus, I can’t whittle off a piece of gold or silver to buy some flour.

    The amount of Bitcoin I have might buy me a taco at Taco Bell, but I am looking into it. To say it is backed by nothing, well, so is the mighty dollar but I bet you have some of them.

    21 Days of Bitcoin https://mailchi.mp/b4a28e31041a/qd6tc53wb4

  • LR6064

    Member
    November 22, 2022 at 2:18 pm

    I think the original to use it like the stock market would not be bad ideal make money then pull out leave enough to make more you can afford the loss. My main thing with it is just like a bank can crash and your money is gone with crypto not only can it crash but also be hacked and I thought the government could not tax or make any laws on it now you have to be taxed on it correct me if I’m wrong.

    Also what happened to all the good guy hackers ? before a few years ago they were in mass now all are no where to be found but since there has been a pc in every home we do know when a hacker is caught the best of are given the choice jail or work for the government and yet people are hacking the energy supply and they are paying them off which is another way for them to launder money as well.

    And I just think in the long run it is a way for us to have less control of what we earn and more control for them even if they quit taxing it and make it look free and clear we know they do not follow laws and your money is hacked and they can’t trace any IP and your moneys gone!

    There is also the fact that a good hacker can take little amounts off of several people and make good and disappear like an accountant shaving off 2 cents on a dollar whos going to make good on any of it .Our money system is not backed true but for now the physical act of stealing my money in person you can still be arrested and banks are insured and I know this still can be shady at best and not work in your favor but I think more are going the way of Trade or work trade off it is limits you but more in your hands to control.

  • Grumpy_G

    Member
    November 22, 2022 at 3:07 pm

    Here’s my question for all the Crypto guys out there. Once the US government declares all crypto illegal, except for Fed coin, will you continue to use Bitcoin, Doge(sp) or whatever. An don;t think it won’t happen. One thing that no one should ever forget is that the government does not like competition, and it is moving constantly to have a monopoly on the use of force.

    • HCrunner

      Member
      November 22, 2022 at 4:47 pm

      I am watching XRP/ Ripple. What I am hearing XRP, XLM, ADA and a few others will be precious metal backed, in time. The amount I have put into these is an amount I am comfortable with losing, if that happens. Doge, I have a small amount. I watch the Economic Ninja, the Digital Asset Investor, and a couple of others on YouTube. I am learning. I am no expert, so if you disagree with me, just know that I am doing my best to understand the pros and cons for myself and am not interested in influencing anyone’s decision regarding cryptos.

    • HCrunner

      Member
      November 22, 2022 at 5:11 pm

      My other thought is they most likely will declare most anything that is competition for their CBDC to be illegal. Precious metals, bartering, etc. Their whole point of the CBDC/Fed Coin is to be able to completely track and tax every aspect of our lives. No more garage sales without taxes being involved, etc. The 87,000 agents they have hired are to pinch every single penny out of us, to decimate the middle class and to put us under their boot. So on that thought, I really don’t care what they declare to be illegal, they are not following the law. I will go around them, however I need to. I have more than one iron in the fire when it comes to alternate forms of payment. We have to outlast these bastards, we will find a way.

      • JD-in-GA

        Member
        November 22, 2022 at 5:26 pm

        I don’t think they will blanket outlaw all crypto except theirs. Think about fiat currency — the dollar competes with the Pound, Euro, Yen, etc and Americans are free to speculate/trade those currencies as they like. What I expect they may do is declare all “official” govt business be conducted in US CBDC/Dollars (paying taxes, fees fines, etc).

        But even if they did declare other crypto illegal, look at Ripple (XRP) which is currently illegal to trade in the US due to the (I think misguided) SEC lawsuit. It has not stopped Americans from trading in XRP, they just have to do it “off shore”. If they want to repatriate those funds, they simply exchange XRP into any other allowable digital or fiat currency before transferring it back to their bank accounts.

      • Grumpy_G

        Member
        November 22, 2022 at 5:53 pm

        Think about fiat currency — the dollar competes with the Pound, Euro, Yen, etc and Americans are free to speculate/trade those currencies as they like

        The government can not control foreign currencies, without causing sever backlash. By comparison the active crypto community is relatively small. When they decide to do away with FedCoin competitors, they will first demonize it as only being used by drug dealers, pedophiles and terrorists. Then there will be some high profile prosecutions to prove the point. Then they will make it illegal. Even if you continue to pursue crypto, it will be worthless, because it will not be usable for everyday items, and any wealth tied up in it will be stuck where it is. On top of it all, you run the risk of being used as the next example by the government.

        To be clear, aside from the fact that crypto ranks right up there with Magic cards, tulips, and fiat currency to me; it’s value is solely based on what people see it as, not in anything usefully tangible, I have no problems with it. If someone wants to invest in it and can actually turn a profit, great for them. I sincerely applaud them. So, please, don’t think I am tying to dissuade anyone from it. Just throwing a great big caveat out there that will eventually get people arrested, or worse killed, when the government makes its move.

      • JD-in-GA

        Member
        November 22, 2022 at 11:47 pm

        Decentralize crypto was designed from the start to route around govt dictates like that. Why would the govt prosecute someone for transferring CDBC or Dollars from one bank (OCONUS or otherwise) to another bank? Now it may have changed among any number of other currencies along the way, digital or fiat, but when crossing into the US regulatory jurisdiction, it does not have to be anything other than what is authorized by law.

        The point is that USA regulators are powerless in many exchanges across the globe and will remain so, even if there is a “one world govt”. Good luck getting 100% participation in the regulatory schemes. Even US politicians need *somewhere* on the globe to facilitate their graft and corruption — especially since their current favorite (Ukraine) is under threat of being taken away from them.

        And the US Dollar itself is based on nothing except “the full faith and credit of the USA” and in practical use, is only worth what the market agrees it is worth. Just like DeFi Crypto.

        Gold/silver aren’t feasible as currency.

        So here we all are… Exchanging currencies backed by nothing other than “the eye of the beholder”.

      • HCrunner

        Member
        November 22, 2022 at 6:38 pm

        I think the CBDC will start out being used for innocuous things. They are currently “testing” it in 12 financial institutions. They will probably even have an opt out option for the first year or so. They will probably make it as attractive to as many people as possible.

        CBDCs are being implemented internationally. The Central Banks of the world are working together. They want nothing more than to control every aspect of our lives. Once the CBDC is fully implemented, they will shut our spending off on anything they want to. They are for zero carbon and the CBDC will be the perfect, programable way to insure our compliance. Too much meat? You can’t buy anymore. Too much driving? No more gas for you. Too much electricity used? Too bad, your heat, etc., will be turned off. It goes much deeper than competition. This is about complete and total control of the masses world wide.

      • JD-in-GA

        Member
        November 23, 2022 at 12:03 am

        The depth of the micro-management CBDC will allow is not something easily conveyed to the average person. It’s like asking them to visualize $30 trillion dollars in debt… Most can even imagine it.

        So, the Govt will not be able to ban other currencies (digital or physical). In fact, they *need* other currencies for the world to keep working. We will just have to wait to see what the options will be.

        I expect it will have to be easier to use than the average DeFi Crypto where you have digital wallets and have to navigate crypto exchanges and all that. There’s a significant percentage of the population that struggles with far less (ahem) “technical stuff”. Like George Carlin said, think about how dumb the *AVERAGE* person is; then realize half the country is dumber than that. So whatever they come up with, will have to be as easy to use as a paper dollar or folks will avoid it like the plague and it could ignite a political firestorm that is “bad for reelections”.

        Opinions will vary.

    • FreeManatOverlookMeadow

      Member
      November 23, 2022 at 10:12 pm

      Yes. The government has no authority. Try to seize my bitcoin. They can’t as long as I keep my private keys. It is also nearly impossible to trace bitcoin. Many third layer applications in play that increase privacy of use. Once folks that do not start using bitcoin are forced to use CBDC you will be bitches of the state. Fiat currency will be a thing of the past. You better hope you have a good bartering network and some seriously needed skills by that community or life will be extremely difficult. Once on CBDC you will follow what ever the gubment says or your privilege to spend will be cut off. No thank you. They want you dead.

    • SpagsUnfiltered

      Community Leader
      November 25, 2022 at 4:47 pm

      Now that the government is taxing the shit out of Crypto, I highly doubt it will ever become illegal. There is too much money in it for them.

      Also to consider, the largest holder of Bitcoin is the US Government.

      • Grumpy_G

        Member
        November 28, 2022 at 12:46 pm

        But I thought the big sell on crypto was that the government couldn’t touch it? How can it be taxed, if that is the case? Also, the government has made a fortune through the “War on Drugs”. If you take in to account the power it has seized, arguably you could say the benefits to the gov are more than it wuuld make by taxing legal recreational drugs. Point is the argument about non-govermental crypto being safe due to the tax angle is wobbly, IMO.

      • SpagsUnfiltered

        Community Leader
        November 28, 2022 at 12:51 pm

        It can be taxed because people use the banking system to convert it and pay for i it.

        Also using Ap Atore aps that are verified using banking information where you have to use your DL to buy and sell..

        It’s not Crypto that is accessible to government as much as the ways people access the crypto.

      • Grumpy_G

        Member
        November 28, 2022 at 12:58 pm

        It’s not Crypto that is accessible to government as much as the ways people access the crypto.

        With that in mind, I stand by my original statement. The government doesn’t like competition. When the time comes, the government will make it impossible for people to use non-governmental crypto in any meaningful way. That time will come at some point, maybe not soon, but eventually it will, unless we bring the US government back inside the Constitutional boundries that were set at the founding.

      • Grumpy_G

        Member
        November 28, 2022 at 12:52 pm

        I’ll go one step further, if crypto is being taxed, it’s even more vunerable to being outlawed than before. What does the goverment do when it wants to get rid of something,it dislikes, or finds a threat to governmental power? It taxes them at a rate that make a majority of people unwilling to use them, then it villifies the people that don’t buckle under. Just wait; it’s gonna happen.

      • SpagsUnfiltered

        Community Leader
        November 28, 2022 at 12:58 pm

        I have no doubt. But that won’t stop me from owning some or spinning some to make a buck.

        And once i learn how to put Bitcpin specifically on a hard wallet, I’ll put back some here and there to it.

        See, I won’t be taxed and here is why. The IRS is only taxing transactions where you make a profit. There is no tax for holding. I won’t sell.

        So all I’m doing is collecting and hoarding….hahahaha.

      • Grumpy_G

        Member
        November 28, 2022 at 1:11 pm

        I have no doubt. But that won’t stop me from owning some or spinning some to make a buck.

        Oh, I’m not saying don’t use it while you can. Make hay when the sun is shining. Like I said, I applaud people that can turn a dollar using crypto. Just making the point that it is not as safe as it is made out to be, and that eventually it will come under the sights of a goverment that is willing to use it’s monoply on force to get its way.

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